Episode Transcript
[00:00:03] Speaker A: Welcome to INA Insights, where prominent leaders and influencers shaping the industrial and industrial technology sector discuss topics that are critical for executives, boards and investors. INA Insights is brought to you by Ina AI, a firm focused on working with industrial companies to make them unrivaled. Segment of one leaders to learn more about Ina Aihdev, please visit our website at www. Dot Ina DoT AI.
[00:00:40] Speaker B: Good Morning and welcome to another episode of the Titanium economy podcast series hosted by Ina today. We have with US Doctor Howard Grimes, who is the CEO at Tsimane, which is the cybersecurity manufacturing innovation Institute funded by the US Department of Energy. Simon E. Connects cybersecurity and energy efficiency to create manufacturing solutions that keep America's companies competitive and protected. Doctor Grimes himself is a noted research scientist and author with 25 years of success in directing complex university and national laboratory research programs and entrepreneurial startup initiatives. During his illustrious career in research, leadership and innovation, he has held notable positions at the University of Texas at San Antonio, Idaho National Laboratory and Washington State University, among others. Doctor Grimes, we are delighted to have you with us today. A very warm welcome and very excited to hear your insights and experiences.
[00:01:43] Speaker C: It's a pleasure to be here.
[00:01:44] Speaker D: I look forward to sharing information.
[00:01:46] Speaker B: Perfect. So let's get started. Why don't we start with you telling us a little bit about the genesis of Saim and Yi in terms of what are its goals and objectives?
[00:01:59] Speaker C: Right, so let me start actually with.
[00:02:01] Speaker D: The manufacturing USA innovation institutes in general.
[00:02:05] Speaker C: So there are 17 manufacturing USA innovation institutes in America right now.
Another one is being stood up as.
[00:02:15] Speaker D: We speak as a result of the Chips and science act.
[00:02:19] Speaker C: In fact, I've got three people there for a reverse site visit today that's going on with one of those competitive teams. The Manufacturing USA is held at the Department of commerce and is funded directly.
[00:02:37] Speaker D: From the US Congress.
[00:02:39] Speaker C: It was brought into existence about ten years ago, frankly, in recognition of the waning power of us manufacturing in a global, globally competitive landscape. So the manufacturing USA institutes are all really about one thing and that is increasing us manufacturing and elevating our global competitive posture. So all of the other institutes really.
[00:03:07] Speaker D: Focus in vertical areas like lightweight composite.
[00:03:10] Speaker C: Materials, next generation electronics, flexible electronics, etcetera.
[00:03:18] Speaker D: Simani. The cybersecurity Manufacturing Innovation Institute is exclusively.
[00:03:24] Speaker C: Focused on cybersecurity and that's critical as we know already, to become competitive. And certainly a hail or a cornerstone of the titanium economy is digitizing your environments in order to increase your productivity. But as we all know now, the.
[00:03:44] Speaker D: More you digitize, the more cyber vulnerable you become.
[00:03:48] Speaker C: And so it's absolutely critical that that.
[00:03:51] Speaker D: Simani exists so that we can really.
[00:03:53] Speaker C: Think from the bottom up in an.
[00:03:55] Speaker D: Integrated, holistic manner about what the future.
[00:03:58] Speaker C: Of cybersecurity is, especially for manufacturing.
So the Department of Energy understood that.
[00:04:07] Speaker D: Current approaches are simply not good enough, to say the least.
[00:04:11] Speaker C: You can look at any tv news station, any newspaper in America or across the globe today and realize the cyber threats are growing in volume, in sophistication, they're increasingly better funded, which means that they become increasingly better at breaching even highly fortified postures. Simani.
Our mantra, if you will, is we.
[00:04:41] Speaker D: Are the most creative and innovative cyber.
[00:04:43] Speaker C: Defense team in the world. And that's our job, is to apply the capabilities and expertise in the institute to make companies, us manufacturers, specifically competitive.
[00:04:56] Speaker D: In this global environment.
[00:04:58] Speaker C: The last thing I'll say is that we face enormous attack vectors right now. And most of us in the insignia have the proper and appropriate security clearances.
[00:05:12] Speaker D: To really understand those threat vectors and.
[00:05:15] Speaker C: How those threat vectors are evolving.
[00:05:17] Speaker D: So one of our differentiators is our.
[00:05:19] Speaker C: Ability to, if you will, look around the corner a bit and see what's coming and develop defenses, defensive architectures that think ahead of those threats. Our goals and objectives are just that, make America companies safer, more resilient, and more energy efficient. In the process, we very much focus on converting cybersecurity from a cost center.
[00:05:50] Speaker D: To a profit center. And the way that we do that.
[00:05:53] Speaker C: Is to focus on cyber innovations, cyber defense innovations that capitalize on energy efficiency gains, which decrease your production costs.
[00:06:05] Speaker B: Right. That makes a lot of sense. Grime. So let's go a little bit deeper into what you said, right? In terms of the US manufacturing sector, it's a national priority to elevate its posture right now at a global level. Right. And there are multiple offices led by or instituted by the Congress to help with that, one of them being Simon E. And here you are working through cyber innovation to be able to fulfill that objective. As you're doing that, can you talk about some of the challenges that you face when you're seeing some of these cybersecurity threats and how the sector right now is engaged to deal with them?
[00:06:49] Speaker C: I think the greatest threat that we all face is the fact that products are brought to market in the context of being first to market, as opposed to being secure to market. So the primary threat vector is that our digitized environments are vulnerable by design.
And so that's a clear way of thinking about it. There is a mythology out there, frankly.
[00:07:20] Speaker D: That says that if you buy these.
[00:07:22] Speaker C: Firewalls and create these air gaps.
Look at endpoint security that you're going to be cyber hardened. You are, to some extent, but the.
[00:07:34] Speaker D: Products that you're trying, the networks you're trying to secure, the machines you're trying.
[00:07:39] Speaker C: To secure, are vulnerable by design. And so we really have to rethink that in a grand challenge way. So the bad actors, the nation state adversaries, et cetera, continue to pour resources into compromising our systems. Us manufacturing, by the data, is the number one sector targeted cyber targeted by nation state adversaries. So why is that so, really? There's multiple reasons for that. Not enough time here to discuss all of them in detail. But at the highest level, disrupting us manufacturing cripples our economy, and it cripples our ability to engage in kinetic wars across the world. And so our adversaries are keenly interested in compromising our capabilities at the right time.
[00:08:37] Speaker D: And so we have to prepare for.
[00:08:39] Speaker C: That in the sense of, you know, safeguarding or cyber securing us manufacturing doesn't just protect our manufacturers, but it also protects our national economy and our resiliency.
[00:08:53] Speaker D: As a nation to respond to any number of global threats.
[00:08:58] Speaker B: Got it. And, Doctor Grimes, very interesting that you talk about that. Now more than ever, it's important to protect the US manufacturing sector from all our adversaries, given how important it is to the economy. And it's also at a greater threat today than probably it ever was. Right. Could you talk about some of the initiatives that you are leading at Simon E. To be able to do that to protect the US manufacturing sector from some of the cyber threats?
[00:09:30] Speaker C: Yes, absolutely.
[00:09:31] Speaker D: As I mentioned earlier, we are the most innovative cyber defense team in the.
[00:09:35] Speaker C: World, and we bring.
[00:09:37] Speaker D: How do we do that? So, we are a public private partnership.
[00:09:40] Speaker C: Again, as a member of Manufacturing USA. So we have best in class talent from the best research universities across the nation. We have best in talent, capability and.
[00:09:55] Speaker D: Expertise from four of the Department of.
[00:09:58] Speaker C: Energy's national laboratories, the Idaho National Lab, Oak Ridge National Lab, Sandia, and the National Renewable Energy Lab.
And we have multiple companies that are.
[00:10:10] Speaker D: Aligned with us as members.
[00:10:13] Speaker C: These include General Electric, Lockheed Martin, Cisco.
[00:10:16] Speaker D: But also many, many small and medium.
[00:10:19] Speaker C: Manufacturers, manufacturers as well. So it's really aggregation of that what I call best in nation approach to securing us manufacturing. So we are funded to work at.
[00:10:34] Speaker D: A very fundamental R and D level.
[00:10:36] Speaker C: So we're not funded to apply existing solutions to cybersecurity.
[00:10:43] Speaker D: We are funded to develop new innovations that will far exceed current cyber defense capabilities. So we do that by focusing on a number of different technology innovation areas.
[00:10:56] Speaker C: The first one we call the secure defensible architectures and cyber physical passports. So the cyber secure defensible architectures protects your factory floor, and the cyber physical passports protect and the providence of your supply chains. So, for the first time, supply chains are parts are born qualified, and the entire supply chain is rooted in trust.
[00:11:24] Speaker D: We also have developed a revolutionary approach to detection and mitigation of cyber vulnerabilities.
[00:11:31] Speaker C: At a scale previously impossible. So all of us in the private world, you know, we all know about.
[00:11:38] Speaker D: Patch Tuesday, or we all know about software updates.
[00:11:41] Speaker C: And almost the top line in every software update you get is this update.
[00:11:47] Speaker D: Addresses known security bugs.
[00:11:50] Speaker C: And the problem with that is, it's not a scalable phenomenon.
[00:11:55] Speaker D: The number of vulnerabilities is in the multiple trillions.
[00:11:59] Speaker C: And so patching those vulnerabilities in the.
[00:12:03] Speaker D: Current methodology is not a scalable exercise. So we've developed a whole nother different approach where we capture thousands of cyber vulnerabilities within single, what we call cyber weakness enumeration.
[00:12:17] Speaker C: And then we've developed AI attacking annexes.
[00:12:22] Speaker D: To prioritize those vulnerabilities so that they can be addressed again in a priority.
[00:12:27] Speaker C: Fashion and at a scale previously not possible.
We also have a whole technical team.
[00:12:33] Speaker D: Assembled around what we call cybersecurity, energy and emissions quantification.
[00:12:38] Speaker C: And that's where we link cybersecurity defenses.
[00:12:42] Speaker D: To energy efficiency gains. And we've been able to demonstrate in multiple industrial environments with priority companies, private.
[00:12:50] Speaker C: And public companies, that, you know, by.
[00:12:53] Speaker D: Introducing our cyber defense or our secure.
[00:12:55] Speaker C: Defensible architectures, we can actually.
[00:13:01] Speaker D: Validate that. We can get energy efficiency savings of between ten and 18%.
And this is a big percentage, which equals a big dollar amount for your company.
[00:13:12] Speaker C: So we're really focused on that. We also have developed, in concert with the Department of Energy, what we call.
[00:13:21] Speaker D: Our secure R and D infrastructure.
[00:13:24] Speaker C: So it's not a classified infrastructure, but it approaches that level of cybersecurity as we proceed. Recently, we branched out into what we.
[00:13:40] Speaker D: Call industry use cases.
[00:13:41] Speaker C: So we were engaged with about twelve companies right now, and we've got about $5 million of investment out there with these companies to deploy secure defensible architecture, cyber physical passports, and cyber vulnerability detection and mitigation at scale in real world.
[00:14:01] Speaker D: You know, in actual existing factories.
[00:14:03] Speaker C: So we're working hard to get our innovations out of, you know, the lab, so to speak, and into industry deployment. That's a huge amount of what we're doing.
[00:14:16] Speaker D: We're uniquely positioned to do this work.
[00:14:19] Speaker C: Frankly, because of our expertise, our technical expertise across our team, we're almost 350 strong.
[00:14:29] Speaker D: We have these folks and entities under subcontract.
[00:14:33] Speaker C: So you come to us with a new problem.
[00:14:35] Speaker D: We can deploy a solution based team very, very quickly because we have the.
[00:14:39] Speaker C: Subcontract already in existence. And that allows us to work in a very agile industry facing fashion with high efficiency.
But you peel the onion back.
[00:14:53] Speaker D: And what we do that's different than anyone else is we get at the fundamental mathematics, the fundamental physics, and the.
[00:15:01] Speaker C: Fundamental systems, design systems to really think about cybersecurity in a yemenite whole new way. So we're the, you know, we're the.
[00:15:11] Speaker D: First ones that really talked about, you.
[00:15:13] Speaker C: Know, application of mathematical formal methods to verification of security guarantees and fundamental physics.
[00:15:21] Speaker D: And these now, you know, five years.
[00:15:23] Speaker C: Later, these are now highlighted in, you.
[00:15:26] Speaker D: Know, presidential reports on how should the nation approach cybersecurity.
[00:15:31] Speaker C: And we're thrilled, you know, to see that the basic building blocks document that.
[00:15:36] Speaker D: Just came out, you know, talks about the need for more formal methods because.
[00:15:41] Speaker C: We'Re kind of, we put our arms in the air first and said we.
[00:15:44] Speaker D: Need to do this.
[00:15:45] Speaker C: And so we've, we've succeeded, I think, in showing the, the power of these.
[00:15:50] Speaker D: Methods as well as how well they.
[00:15:53] Speaker C: Work in industrial environments.
[00:15:58] Speaker B: Got it. And very fascinating, Doctor Grimes. So just going back to what you said, that you currently have about twelve companies that you're working with to deploy the cybersecurity initiatives. So there's a lot of emerging trends on the technology side, like AI, machine learning and so on and so forth. Could you talk a little bit about how some of these trends are impacting the way that you are trying to, trying to deploy cybersecurity measures at some of these companies that you're working with?
[00:16:34] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:16:35] Speaker D: So let me answer that in two ways.
[00:16:38] Speaker C: One is how are we using it, and then a little glimpse into how.
[00:16:42] Speaker D: Our adversaries are beginning to use it as well.
[00:16:46] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:16:46] Speaker C: So our way that we use AI and ML and other techniques like that is primarily in the design phase.
[00:16:56] Speaker D: So we talk about security by design.
[00:16:58] Speaker C: And you can use AI and related technologies to drastically increase the efficiency of.
[00:17:07] Speaker D: Generation of secure by design architecture.
[00:17:10] Speaker C: So we are actively doing that.
[00:17:12] Speaker D: The second area that we're actively engaging.
[00:17:14] Speaker C: AI in is back to the how.
[00:17:18] Speaker D: Do we detect and mitigate cyber vulnerabilities.
[00:17:21] Speaker C: At a scale that is needed and.
[00:17:24] Speaker D: Is not possible today? So we have developed what we call.
[00:17:27] Speaker C: Simania annexes and we're now bringing the.
[00:17:31] Speaker D: Full power of AI and ML and.
[00:17:34] Speaker C: Large language models to those ATT and CK annexes to ramp up, enormously ramp up their efficiency of operations.
[00:17:44] Speaker D: We're probably going to be spending a.
[00:17:46] Speaker C: Major amount of money here in the next year or so on developing our own high performance computing cluster to support that AI compute power that's needed.
[00:17:58] Speaker D: Now, let me switch gears and give you a very simple, straightforward example of.
[00:18:03] Speaker C: What our adversaries will be doing very soon.
[00:18:07] Speaker D: No documented cases of it thus far.
[00:18:10] Speaker C: But it's going to happen.
[00:18:11] Speaker D: So if you look at us manufacturing, if you break out all the kinds of threats, you know, denial of service.
[00:18:18] Speaker C: Man in the middle, all those different.
[00:18:21] Speaker D: Types of attacks, the number one attack.
[00:18:23] Speaker C: Right now in America is ransomware.
And of those ransomware attacks in America.
[00:18:31] Speaker D: Over 80% of those attacks are because.
[00:18:35] Speaker C: Of, quote, the human in the loop. And so it's human error.
[00:18:39] Speaker D: They do something they shouldn't do. So our entire approach to workforce development.
[00:18:44] Speaker C: Right now, you know, is focused on.
[00:18:47] Speaker D: How do we educate humans to not.
[00:18:50] Speaker C: Respond inappropriately to phishing attacks, spearing attacks, whale attacks, etcetera. And the way that we do that.
[00:18:58] Speaker D: And anyone that's been trained understands that. You know, look closely at the email, look at the header.
[00:19:03] Speaker C: Right?
[00:19:04] Speaker D: Look at the, are there misspellings?
[00:19:06] Speaker C: Are there things that are incorrect? And so we can teach you today.
[00:19:11] Speaker D: To detect phishing attacks relatively straightforwardly, because our adversaries do make those kind of simple mistakes.
What they're now going to do is.
[00:19:22] Speaker C: They'Re going to use their own AI to clean those up and make those look like it came from Howard to directly to them. And that's going to make it a lot more vulnerable. It's going to increase that human in the loop factor enormously.
[00:19:38] Speaker D: So we're already thinking about, well, how.
[00:19:40] Speaker C: Do we then design, you know, approaches that understand that those attack vectors are.
[00:19:47] Speaker D: Going to be a lot more sophisticated to tomorrow than they are today?
[00:19:51] Speaker C: And how do we think about that in a proactive, integrated sense?
[00:19:58] Speaker B: Got it. Got it. And Doctor Bryant, just shifting gears at this point to talk a little bit about your own journey, because you've been a promoter organizer, and now, of course, the CEO of, first of its kind, cyber security manufacturing innovation institute. Right. So what has been your key motivation behind all of this?
[00:20:20] Speaker D: The vitality of the us nation, I.
[00:20:22] Speaker C: Think, is my primary motivation. So I've had a lot of really great jobs, you know, inside of academia. I was a dean, I was a vice president for research in, you know, Doe national labs. I was a convener of, you know, or interface or from industry onto, you know, large, large problems, including, you know, carbon capture at a large scale and other things. But this is, this is by far and away the most important job I've ever had. And the reason it's the most important job is so much is at stake if we're not successful. And so I'm highly motivated, you know, I was highly motivated to put the team together.
I remain highly motivated because I'm aware.
[00:21:13] Speaker D: On almost a daily basis of how.
[00:21:15] Speaker C: The threat vectors are evolving and how much more sophisticated they're becoming. And I look at the fundamental math.
[00:21:24] Speaker D: And fundamental physics that are needed to.
[00:21:26] Speaker C: Address these evolving threat vectors and I realize that we're likely the only team, you know, certainly the only public team out there that has the capabilities and.
[00:21:40] Speaker D: Expertise that's needed to address these challenges.
[00:21:43] Speaker C: And as I said earlier, these, you.
[00:21:46] Speaker D: Know, if our, if our adversaries compromise.
[00:21:48] Speaker C: Our us manufacturing base, it's that blows our economy up. And, you know, I know we have.
[00:21:56] Speaker D: Questions coming up later about the titanium economy, but when I look at the.
[00:22:00] Speaker C: Features of the titanium economy, you know, I'm all in.
[00:22:04] Speaker D: But what I see is the major.
[00:22:05] Speaker C: Gap is cybersecurity, because the nation that secures its manufacturing base is the nation that's going to remain the strongest in.
[00:22:16] Speaker D: A globally competitive way. So we might talk about that later.
[00:22:21] Speaker C: But it is, you know, I did not start the life as a cybersecurity expert.
[00:22:26] Speaker D: I started life, if you will, as.
[00:22:27] Speaker C: A, you know, a PhD in biophysics. But, you know, life happens and, you know, you keep learning, you keep adapting.
[00:22:37] Speaker D: And, you know, new opportunities arise as a function of that.
[00:22:41] Speaker B: That's right. And Doctor Grimes, you mentioned about the simony team, and that takes me to my next question. As you mentioned, that the reason the Simonee is so uniquely positioned to address the cybersecurity challenges within the US manufacturing sector is the expertise and the talent that you have been put together. Now, you work with the industrial sector, the US manufacturing sector, which we also refer to as the titanium economy, which every now and then grapples with this challenge of attracting the right talent. Right. So for the benefit of our listeners, could you shed some light on how you were able to put together such a good team at Simon E in such a short duration?
[00:23:27] Speaker C: Yeah. During the formation of, you know, so.
[00:23:30] Speaker D: The doe writes what's called a FOA funding opportunity announcement and a bunch of.
[00:23:35] Speaker C: People across the country, you know, start to think about how they're going to write a proposal to win that grant.
[00:23:42] Speaker D: It'S a big grant.
[00:23:43] Speaker C: It's, you know, over a hundred million.
[00:23:45] Speaker D: Dollar contract when all is said and done.
[00:23:49] Speaker C: And, you know, so I worked with.
[00:23:51] Speaker D: Multiple people from the national labs, multiple.
[00:23:55] Speaker C: Leaders from universities across the country, you know, to get a, you know, to form the, what I was hoping at.
[00:24:02] Speaker D: The time and proved to be the.
[00:24:04] Speaker C: Case, the most competitive team, you know, to go and win this particular contract. So, you know, there was a lot of phone calls, you know, long, long days, as my wife would assure you. And, you know, it basically was about building a team, building a group of people that could really, you know, roll.
[00:24:26] Speaker D: Up their sleeves and get to serious.
[00:24:28] Speaker C: Work and have fun at the same time. You know, it's a, you know, it's a daunting problem.
[00:24:34] Speaker D: Most important work I've ever done in.
[00:24:36] Speaker C: My life, as I've indicated. But you know, we also have to have fun and we created a working environment that, where we really trusted each other. We were, you know, we worked towards a common goal or a common enemy, if you will. You know, we had a rallying cry, you know, early on, you know, one team, one fight because we understood the.
[00:25:00] Speaker D: Magnitude of the fight.
[00:25:01] Speaker C: And I selected people as leaders on my team who understood the fight and understood what was needed to engage and.
[00:25:11] Speaker D: Win in that fight.
[00:25:14] Speaker C: So getting people organized around the approach but having the intellectual freedom to debate what that right approach is proved to be radically important for us in our success. So I give all of our credit.
[00:25:34] Speaker D: To the team because it's really their expertise and their capabilities that have allowed.
[00:25:38] Speaker C: The success that we've been able to demonstrate.
[00:25:42] Speaker B: Right, and Doctor Grimes, final question. We've already mentioned the titanium economy a few times during this conversation and Samani is putting together this partnership ecosystem which will have nearly 50 members, if I'm not wrong, across industry, some powerhouse universities, some nonprofits, some innovation institutes.
How are you envisioning that? Once this ecosystem comes together, how will it shape the future of this titanium economy?
[00:26:17] Speaker D: I'm hoping quite honestly that this podcast.
[00:26:20] Speaker C: Will help get simone some visibility within the companies that comprise the titanium economy. I hope it'll get some visibility into the authors of the book on the titanium economy because I'd love to have connective tissue there. And the reason I'd like to have connective tissue there is a, we are a public private partnership so we need partners.
And I see the participants and the.
[00:26:51] Speaker D: Doers, if you will, in the titanium.
[00:26:53] Speaker C: Economy to be prime partners because of.
[00:26:56] Speaker D: Their intellectual posture that they already have.
[00:27:01] Speaker C: Again, what I'll mention if you look.
[00:27:03] Speaker D: At the tenants of what makes a company a member of the titanium economy.
All of those things make a tremendous amount of sense.
[00:27:11] Speaker C: The one thing that I would add, and I hope people will understand, is that it's great to digitize, it's great to lean forward, it's great to do all those things. All those things can potentially be almost meaningless if you're not secure to market.
[00:27:32] Speaker D: And that's what we're in business to.
[00:27:33] Speaker C: Do, is help you be secure to market. You don't have to start at the.
[00:27:37] Speaker D: Very beginning with us. We bring companies on board all the time.
[00:27:40] Speaker C: We've got active projects right now on a major energy controller that's used by a us company. But all across the globe, I should say, on wind turbines, for instance, how do we secure that? Think about an adversary that you know about going into the US.
Wind all those turbines, thousands of turbines out there, and realize that you can just shut those guys down with a cyber breach.
[00:28:13] Speaker D: So we're working with that company to.
[00:28:15] Speaker C: Make sure that doesn't happen. We're working with another company that was ransomware attacked. They invested in all kinds of existing technology so it wouldn't happen again. It happened again.
[00:28:28] Speaker D: And that's when they came and found us.
[00:28:30] Speaker C: And so now we're working with them to deploy these secure defensible architectures that.
[00:28:36] Speaker D: Make it much, much more difficult for.
[00:28:39] Speaker C: An adversary to do it again to them.
[00:28:42] Speaker D: And we're proving that to be the case again.
[00:28:45] Speaker C: With formal methods, we can verify what we do as opposed to just putting a nice pitch deck together and hope you buy our product.
[00:28:55] Speaker D: I think that the major factor.
[00:28:59] Speaker C: In.
[00:29:00] Speaker D: Our national security and our economic stability.
[00:29:04] Speaker C: Again is the country that secures to market and secures its manufacturing base, is.
[00:29:13] Speaker D: The country that's going to have the.
[00:29:15] Speaker C: Most resilient economy in the world far into the future. And I would love, literally love, to have connective tissue to the leading companies.
[00:29:27] Speaker D: In the titanium economy to see what.
[00:29:29] Speaker C: We can do together.
Our tagline, by the way, is secure together. And what that implies is that cybersecurity is absolutely a team sport. We can't do it by ourselves as an institute, we have to have partners that are willing to roll up their.
[00:29:49] Speaker D: Sleeves and work with us to develop.
[00:29:51] Speaker C: These next generation secure defensible architectures and deploy them in their environments for their own benefit. So that's what we're about.
[00:30:02] Speaker B: Awesome. Thank you so much, Doctor Grimes, for your time today. It was a great conversation and thank you for sharing all the insights from the innovation that you're driving at.
[00:30:12] Speaker C: Simon E. Lovely to talk with you, and please be in touch again, and we're happy to help. Bye bye.
[00:30:19] Speaker B: Bye bye.
[00:30:25] Speaker A: Thanks for listening to Ina Insights. Please visit Ina AI for more podcasts, publications, and events on developments shaping the industrial and industrial technology sector.
